People say Let Rick Ride

I feel the use of flags should be riders choice. After 30 DALMAC's I never felt that they were needed for our saftey.

This issue is not so much about Rick Oberle as it is about the well meaning efficacy Vs the Potentially hazardous tradeoffs related to the mandatory use of the traditional DALMAC flag.

I love DALMAC and I believe that it is one of the best rides in the country and internationally as well. Throughout the past 3 decades the dedicated DALMAC staff has provided a safe and very enjoyable quality experience that we all greatly look forward to every year. With the exception of the mandatory use of the DALAMC flag, DALMAC is darn near perfect. I am very concerned that the mandatory use of the DALMAC flag, which is sincerely meant to protect DALMAC and its participants, may in fact act as a Trojan horse. Given the right circumstances, the flag could be the source of serious injury or may be the cause of the end of DALAMC. These circumstances may have been avoided to date because the mandatory use of the DALMAC flag has not been strictly enforced to the benefit of both DALMAC and the individuals choose not to ride with the flags. I strongly believe that the flag should be optional based on the individual judgment. This approach takes DALMAC of the hook and provides the individual with the ability to make a responsible choice based o their own personal riding circumstances and safety

Frankly, it amazes me that the use of the DALMAC flag is still required to ride DALMAC. Numerous seasoned cyclists (current and former racers an tourists) who have ridden DALMAC and who have ridden other countless tours both nationally and internationally have commented that DALMAC is the only ride they know of that still requires the use of such a flag

In addition, the mandatory use of the DALMAC flag is contradictory to the rider release form that we are required to sign as a DALMAC participant. The intent of the rider release form is to document that the rider has agreed to assumed personal responsibility for their own safety. Unlike the use of helmets, I strongly doubt if there is any safety related data or precedent setting practice that supports the use of the DALMAC flag. If we are to assume responsibility for our own safety, we should be allowed to make decisions related to our own safety. In the absence of data supporting the safety advantages of the DALMAC flag, the decision to ride with or without a flag is certainly one that the rider should be allowed to make and is consistent with this assumed personal responsibility role that we agree to by virtue of signing the release form. The flags should be made available and not be forced on the participants.

I truly believe that there is no safety benefit to using the DALMAC flag. Furthermore, the use of the DALMAC flag is a safety hazard to other cyclist and to the individual rider. Over the past decades of riding DALMAC, I have personally been injured by these flags.

On numerous occasions, I have witnessed others being hit in the face from another person’s flag while climbing a hill or during dismount. I have seen others who have fallen while dismounting because of the DALMAC flag. In addition, I and others have been forced to cross the yellow line on a blind uphill in order to avoid being hit by a swaying flag from another cyclist as he (she) was passed while standing on a steep grade.

Furthermore, in an effort to reduce the aforementioned safety hazards associated with the full length flag and remain in conformance, it has been common practice to reduce the length of the flag mast. Although this may serve to eliminate the safety hazards associated with the long masted flags, it creates a whole new set of safety hazards that are manifested under a different set of riding scenarios.

The mandatory use of the DALMAC flag while riding in a pack creates a hazard, regardless of the length. It interferes with the ability to ride safety in a pack and can be considerably more detrimental in an accident where the flag mast could puncture exposed areas including the face and eyes. A possible solution to this dilemma may be the banning of pack riding.

There may be a safety benefit to using the flag for cyclist riding by themselves. These benefits may be related to the physiological effect that the flags have on some drivers. The fact that some people strongly believe this may be motivation for them to ride with a flag. If they think all drivers are intimidated (Causing them to pass with more room) and not angered causing them to pass with less room) by the flag, then they should be using one. Whether this says something about their ego, I really don’t know.

The problem with this other than its absolute ridiculousness is that it would be hard to enforce and would greatly detract form the DALMAC experience to the point of many people not registering for DALMAC. One of the great things about DALMAC and other organized rides is that it provides a venue for cyclist to ride in packs.

In the absence of supporting data that demonstrates the efficacy of the flag in reducing the occurrence or severity of car-bike accidents, the legal aspects of the forced flag usage could be disastrous to DALMAC if someone on DALMAC claims injury as a result of the DALMAC flag and then takes legal action against DALMAC. I am both surprised and extremely delighted that this has not already happened. Without evidence of any precedent setting flag usage or circumstances supporting the safety aspects of the flag for cycling applications, and in the absence of data showing the safety benefits of flag usage, I believe that mandatory use of the DALMAC flag, in today’s litigious society, is a law suite waiting to happen. Needless to say, I am very concerned about this, as DALMAC has helped formed and has been a major part of Michigan’s cycling foundation and history for over 3 decades.

In regard to Rick Oberle, I have known Rick for over 25 years. I, along with countless others, have a great deal of respect for him as an individual and what he has done to support and promote cycling. Rick is a very seasoned and experienced cyclist with a strong awareness and conviction for safety. His decision not to ride with a pole mounted flag was a sound and responsible decision and was based on safety for himself and others. Perhaps Rick could have approach the situation in a better way, but I and numerous others greatly respect and support Rick’s ultimate purpose. It is ludicrous that DALMAC has deicide to ban Rick’s participation.

In summary, DALMAC is an extremely well run ride with an outstanding staff of dedicated people. With the exception of the mandatory use of the DALMAC flag, DALMAC is one of the best run rides in the country. It has brought joy and solidarity to the cycling community for over 3 decades. It is for this reason that I strongly recommend that DALMAC seriously review their policy of the mandatory use of the traditional DALMAC flag from both a practical and legal aspect. The mandatory use of the DALMAC flag offers no real safety benefit yet creates practical hazards both on and off the bike. It would be devastating if someone became seriously injured due to mandatory DALMAC flag usage or DALMAC ceased to exist do to a financially crippling law suite, justified or not. DALMAC needs to allow people to make their own choice regarding the use of this flag. If some people feel safer with it..great!!. But do not force the use of it where conditions the condition are known not to be safe!

The flags should be shown for safety not in your back pocket. Sorry Rick.............Get a flag pole like everyone else.

It's unfair to keep Rick from riding. He's been an assest to the riding community.

I recently received an interesting piece of information regarding Rick Oberle not being allowed to ride DALMAC this year. Is this really true? Is Rick being disallowed from participation in DALMAC for improper flag presentation? Having ridden this ride perhaps ten or so times in the last twenty years myself, often in the company of Rick, it is safe to say that I have witnessed his safe cycling abilities for many thousands of miles. Although he is very strong and physically capable, he still manages to ride in a conservative and considerate fashion. My personal feelings on the flags has always been, put it on, stay out of trouble as it is a nice ride. That said, I have in the past resorted to shortening the staff somewhat due to the whip action caused by the wind. I have also felt that flags were an irritating distraction while riding in any sort of paceline situation more likely to cause a mishap then prevent one (guessing on this-no data to support this conclusion). As a tradition, I understand the desire to keep the flags waving. As a practicality, I haven't seen the data that suggests any benefit of outfitting bikes with flags. Maybe I am missing something, so label this my humble opinion. I can only hope that you would consider two things: allowing Rick to ride as well as considering alternatives to the flags. (for visibility sake, maybe small led lights, fluourescent sticker for helmets, etc.) Thanks for reading this.

Rick Oberle has been a fixture in Michigan cycling for as long as I can remember. He must be allowed to ride. I think tall flags waving back and forth are very dangerous. My group last year on the quad century (not Rick's - he's too fast for me) averaged 20 miles an hour for the whole trip and we were often doing a pace line at 26 to 27 miles an hour for very long stretches. We all had our flags cut way down to just below the saddle. Had they been any higher, drafting would have been very dangerous. I do not want to have a flag in my face when I am trying to draft. Please consider the serious, competitive cyclists on Dalmac as well as the tourists. Flags are ok at 12 miles an hour, but they are dangerous at 25. Perhaps consider a bright logo pinned to the back of the Jersey instead. If everyone really has to have a flag on a stick over their head this year, then I'm not going.

So, Al -- this sounds more like a personal vendetta than something that really looks after the safety of riders participating in your event. I know Rick -- he can be a little strident on occasion, but there is no better rider, no one more concerned for the safety of the whole and no one who really would be a better participant in Dalmac. And think about it -- would YOU want to be the rider behind someone with a stick on his or her bike that crashed? Maybe you'd be just fine. Maybe you'd be spending your next Dalmac watching riders come in with a patch over your eye... It's just not safe, and it's just not practical. I have to tell you, I watched just about every day of the Tour de France and many other bike events, and I don't see those guys wearing flags on sticks -- or anywhere above their heads, for that matter. Frankly, I don't know why Rick would want to ride Dalmac, when he's been treated this way -- but the fact is, he's been a part of it for so many years, t

here is, I think, a sense of shared ownership in the event and certainly the biking community itself. Push the envelope if you like, but it doesn't say much for Dalmac, the people running it, or their confidence in the caliber of their riders. I can't imagine what some of the more professional rides (or for that matter magazines or journals) would say if they had to choose in a debate between this stand and Rick's. I join others who will say "Let Rick Ride."

Flags are dangerous. If you want to ID riders, put a number on their back or something more safe than this.

you know you can put your flag-where the sun don't shine

In the past I have ridden DALMAC for many years and have never thought the flag was a problem. I as well as all my Wolverine Sports Club buddies just strap on the flag and ride. It's no big deal. If Rick Oberle wants to protest the flag and curtail it's use, then do it properly. Talk directly to Al Simons about the flag thing, send letters of protest or print up T-shirts but don't break the rules. I have been on my pedaling bikes since 1955 and find that biking is more important then sitting out a good tour.

To ban a rider from dalmac for not having his flag on properly is to get loose sight of the orginal intent of dalmac. Reconsider being so legalistic and more realistic and let Rick ride.

The original intent of flags was to provide a means of safety. Like a lot of things we now discover that they are not all that effective in providing a safe environment, in fact they may actually be a detriment.

Because of the size and shape of the flags they are almost invisible from behind. The intent was to provide more visibility for the rider. The first thing you see is the rider's helmet, then their jersey and maybe their fanny patch if they are required to use one, not the flag.

The flag is a danger to the rider using them. The vast majority of riders never use a flag in their normal riding. When they are required to use them on a tour, they then have issues with mounting and dismounting their bike with a flag attached that normally is not there. In essence the ride is increasing the risk of the rider having a problem.

The flags are also a danger to other folks riding or walking around the bikes. Again we are not normally use to flags on bikes. The risk of someone getting poked by a flag is high because people are not use to looking out for them sticking off the back of a bike.

DALMAC has an excellent reputation. So what happens when a legislator in Michigan sees that DALMAC requires flags. Must be a good thing if they do it. Then maybe we should pass a bill that all bicyclists in Michigan use a flag when they ride a bike. Could happen?

To my knowledge, DALMAC is the only ride left in the country that requires flags. How do the other rides survive without flags?

I think it is time for the organizers of DALMAC to rethink why they are using flags and what message it is sending.

All riders should be able to ride without a flag. Rick is a great guy, but that is not why flags should be eliminated. They are just a failed attempt at providing safety. The risks far outweigh any benefit gained

I saw this on the blog and I couldn't agree with Rick more. I get a little freaked out when I see those flags -- one fall with others around and it could be really serious. I think DALMAC needs to re-evaluate this procedure and look toward the future and the safety of its riders and the norm of the day and not to the past.

What else can I say that hasn't already been said.

LET RICK RIDE.

I think the DALMAC flag rule is just silly.

I have always cut mine down to saddle height for two reasons: So that I can dismount properly, and to make riding with my friends less dangerous. I have never had a problem with it at saddle height.

Last year I saw a DALMAC rider pull up to a sub shop for lunch and forget he had a DALMAC flag on his bike. He tried to dismount, caught his leg and fell. This was on day 3 and yet he still forgot it was there. After he picked himself and his bike up he leaned his bike next to mine. He saw the height of my DALMAC flag and said "I need to do that".

I had planned on doing DALMAC again this year. I will not be doing so unless I can cut my DALMAC flag down to reasonable height.

DALMAC doesn't know anything about safety. On Cycle Oregon, they do it right giving everybody a condom that says "Ride Safely" on it. Believe it or not, they don't use flags. Let Rick Ride!

Knowing Rick, he probably helped in the escalation of the situation, but that doesn't mean he should be OUTLAWED from the Dalmac. It's a fun event and raises money for a good cause... let him ride!

It seems rules not the safety of riders and the public prevails once again. Hurt feelings? Power base thwarted. Get over it. You're an adult, Al.

Let Rick ride!!! He broke no rules.

roadies are whiners. race officals wish the could ride. DALMAC sucks. These are givens. So shut up, take his money, and let the guy ride.

I can't believe they're still carrying on with that silly flag thing. In California, all the organized rides required a bracelet and nothing else.
With all of the commotion going on about the safety of quick releases - I'm surprised nobody has brought that up. Interfering with a safety device could cause a bigger problem.

Are you KIDDING me? I've done DALMAC 12 times and have had my share of dodging those stupid flags. Nothing like someone's flag smacking you on the helmet or suddendly appearing in your front wheel. Of course there's the tricky dismount as well. I think they're more hazardous than helpful. If visibility is an issue, require rear flashers, sheesh.

My flag sneezed within the first 50 miles of DALMAC and made me fall down! If it had been in my pocket this would not have happened.

Rick Oberle is a class act and truly an asset to MI cycling.

As a nationally ranked racing cyclist and upperclassman at MSU in 1975, El Rebo (His nickname) was kind enough to take me, still a junior age cyclist and a new freshman at State, as his roommate. He showed me not only the best roads to ride, but also how to be a responsible member of the college community.

His racing waned, but fortunately not his love of Cycling. I moved to CA and we lost touch, until a few years ago when I joined the DALMAC community as a vendor, and was thrilled to see him and rekindle the friendship.

As old racers, we are quick to jump onto the wheel of anything that passes us-and it is a very rare occurance on rides such as Dalmac.

Rick rides the Quad century route, where the elite level riders know each other and seek each other out year after year. The years I've joined in we've almost always ridden together. We're the guys fighting for the wheel of the fastest tandem, and Rick, because I didn't know the roads, was the one who would always let me know when the next city limit sprint was coming up, even thouh it could cost him a win. It was a great time, and truly took us back 30 years to our racing youth.

By the time I got to DALMAC my first year of vending at organized rides, I had probably been to 20 or more all over the country. Since then it's probably gone up to more than 100, and not a one requires use of a flag. Frankly, when I heard someone in Lansing tell me I needed a flag, I thought they were joking. I asked Rick about it, he explained the rule and actually convinced me to carry one.

Here are some of the ways I saw our group attempt to obey the letter of the rule without endangering each other (For all the reasons already eloquently stated by others-though I might add that Rick and I were track racing specialists, both State Champions in the Team Pursuit. If you're not familiar with that event, please "Google" it and note the proximity with which we are accustomed to riding!)

So here's how our packmates conformed:

Many would cut the flag down to just long enough to secure to the saddle rail with tape or a ziptie, thereby rendering it waveless.

About the same number would ignore the rule completely.

Some rolled up a poleless flag and stuffed it in their jersey pocket. ("Hey, I'm carrying the flag, aren't I?)

Silly me, as I'd thought it was a joke, I didn't pick one up at registration. But because Rick told me I should have one, I (without dismounting) scooped up one of those little wire stemmed landscaping flags, stuck the wire in my pocket, and let it flap, like a poorly pinned racing number, on my back for the rest of the ride.

There is an important point that I don't believe has yet been made, so please bear with me.

After leaving MI, I had a decent career as a racing cyclist-(I rode 4 6-day races in Germany and Belgium). As a career I took up coaching, then as a Technical Advisor and Cycling Cameraman doing motion picture, commercial, and tv, production. Twice I was named Head Coach for the US Olympic Festival, and I ran the 2 velodromes in LA for 8 and 15 years, introducing over 10,000 road cyclists to group riding skills under the most controlled conditions possible. Every single one of those students heard from me that Cycling is a most unfair sport-A rider can be doing everything correctly and end up on ther ground, while the person responsible for the crash rides on unawares. The most experienced person on the track (Or in a pack) is only as safe as the least-therefore we must be careful to educate the entire group.

Rick cares enough about the event to obey it's rules, though he knows in his heart that by doing so he endangers others. This is my point. Rick is not making himself safer by not using a flag-he is making ME (Or you, if you are fast enough to hold his wheel)safer. Rick, and everyone else for that matter, is endangered not by his own flag, but by those of others.

Rick: As you were when I was 17, you are again my hero. Were it me, I would just pirate the ride, but you have too much class for that, and you are demonstrating that class with this petition.

If DALMAC does not allow you to ride, (And even if they do!) I would be honored to put you up for a week or two out here in California. We'll do some great group rides, with fast, safe, experienced, quality riders, and not a flag in sight.

I am confused!!! Can some responsible person from the TCBA explain to me why these flags are necessary? I thought I was doing the right thing by using one, but now I am not so sure. Also, why has the DALMAC Rider Forum on the TCBA website been locked out from accepting new members?

Who cares about a flag! Safety should always come first.

Had to look at the calendar to make sure this wasn't an April Fool thing. WHAT?????

Get over it and yourselves.

Rick might be abrasive to some and as they say 'march to his own drummer' but to keep him outta DALMAC due to a flag 'infraction'? A guy who has done a TON for cycling, advocacy and safety?

You don't think a guy who has been taken out by a car doesn't get it about safety???

How many rides require a flag? A motorist might not notice they've been going by a line of bikes?

sigh. This is a sad day, a sad day for cycling, advocacy and freedom.

LET RICK RIDE!

Rick has always been a stand-up guy. It would be a blemish on a ride such a great rep to prevent his participating. For the sake of DALMAC, please let him ride.

I no longer do the DALMAC because of the mandatory raising of the flag upon my bicycle. My sports group ride single/double pace lines, in the event of a sudden stop, crash or bike malfunction the affixing of the flag to the rear of a bike thus becomes a spear. If the DALMAC organizers were truly insisting on safety of the DALMAC riders, they would institute another way of displaying a flag other than on a spear on the back of a bike.

I have participated in numerous similar rides around the country and DALMAC is the only one requiring these flags. Since DALMAC is an annual tradition, people in the areas of the ride know it is going on. In the early days these flags may have served a purpose. I believe those days are long gone. I will ride DALMAC when I can ride without a "safety" flag.

The flag rule does not make sense. Please revisit the rule objecyively.

This is an antiquated rule and should not be followed. Who even uses flags anymore? Is this 1975?

Imagine riding in a paceline and a gust of wind blowing the flag pole/stick into your face or worse into your eye. It could happen. I know the purpose is visibility and safety but the idea is a bit antiquated and more than a bit dangerous. I personally wouldn't want to be the person whose flag ends up in another cyclist's eye.

Al, Are you in therapy? I suggest you should be. You seem to have control issues. Was your father (do you know who he is as you obviously are a bastard) mean to you? I believe that may explain why you are such a prick.

Get a flag / Ride DALMAC! Simple as that. Chose the wrong fight. Do it the right way. 7-time DALMAC rider.

War in Iraq, genecide, starving children, FLAGS!

Get real DALMAC

Flags on bikes is dangerous. Dalmac is one of the only rides that I know still has this "Law." Is this the fourth of July parade on big wheels or is this a top touring ride in Michigan? If safety is an issue make everyone have a rear flashing light instead of a 6 foot flag pole hitting you in the face. Let Rick ride and be done with the flags.

Each year I have several near falls due to that damn flag. It interferes with mounting and dismounting. On the road, loose or tilting flags swing around and scare other riders causing them to not hold a steady line for fear of being poked in the eye. One even hit my helmet once. On a large group ride motorists know we are there. Save the flags for the solo riders or tricycle recumbents with a 4 inch ground clearance.

Having a flag on a stick???? What's more unsafe than that? Get off "Rule culture" and think harder about real safety

This sounds very personal to me, like someone does not like to be challenged about a rule that no loner makes sense. Being a volunteer does not give anyone the right to exercise power in a personal confrontation.

There is no dought safety is important, but consistency and modernization need to be considered. Most people make the flag pole short and role it up which provide no value and they are allowed to ride???

How about getting a clue and actaully making the ride safer buy using something that might accually promote safety,like something bright and attached to the back of peoples jersey's. I would bet it gets better utilization by riders, is better seen by drivers and actually cost less.

Or maybe you hav stock in the pole company?

C'mon . . .Al, your ego is riding your bike, and it's taking

all the cameraderie out of the ride. Do the hard thing --

back down, and LET RICK RIDE

I've ridden dalmac 16 times. I've been a member of tcba since the late 80's, if only on paper. And I hate flags as much as the next guy. But it's their game and their ball. And in a perfect world we could all rise-up and slay the ugley dragon, but I live in the real world. So if all I have to do is put a flag on my bike to attend, then I'll put a flag on my bike. Won't like it, but I'll do it. I haven't forgotten how to take precautions when conditions warrent. We're all fast down wind, down hill, or in a pack. Don't know what's going on with Rick, but I've had my share of run-in's with the dalmac folks. I can't help but think that there's more involved here than just a flag. Good luck guys!

Let's drop the flag requirement for all. It is outdated and dangerous. Perhaps brightly colored race numbers could be pinned on instead as a more agreeable and safer option

I have ridden about 20 DALMAC's. On my last ride I was 80. I had to dispense with the flag in my later years because I could no longer mount my bike with it in the way. I think it is more of a problem than a help.

Bad rule. Ban flags not Rick. A flag on a sharp stick mounted to a travelling object.....dumb idea. c'mon think about it.

The flag is a safety hazzard in that it is distracting to nearby rides, both visually and audibly. In addition, the stick itself is a safety hazzard in that, as my mother used to say, it can put somebody's eye out. NO other organized ride requires them.

silly - allow Rick to ride! Al Simons - karma . . . karma.

Dump the dangerous flags!!

I have ridden with Mr. Oberle for over a decade now, sometimes knuckle to knuckle, without incident. He is correct about the hazard of a flag in the event of a mishap among riders. Flags are supposed to make riders safer but a flag in and of itself is dangerous to ride attached to a bike in a pack. Consider the recumbent and Irish mail type of cycles which are low to the ground and should not be ridden in a pack. Now there is a good candidate for a flag since they are not as high as a typical bike seat.

I believe Mr. Oberle was complying with the rules and should be allowed to ride. Whether the flag rule is appended or not I am sure he will continue to benefit other riders with his knowledge and safety.

Please set your ego to the side for a moment and ask yourself, is this about the rules and you protecting them or is about your authority being challenged ? why don't you and rick go shopping together and look to see how many retailers bundle a safety flag with the bikes they sell. that may give you a clearer understanding of how relevent they are for todays cyclist. Maybe you could put it up for a vote by anyone who's ridden this event at least 3 times....

Where is the data that shows flying flags increases biker safety?

I think that we should admit that the flag is flown as an IDENTITY flag---DALMAC riders are known for their flags. That's how you know the ride is going by. It's a "fly your colors" thing.

I think that rules should be enforced by the spirit of the situation with the first priority being the freedom of riding. The letter of the law is an ugly thing in a social group and should only be used in extremis.

Sadly, some volunteers who are attracted to administering groups have a bureaucratic mentality that defeats the purpose of the group even though it can help a group be well-organized. But organization isn't everything. It's very important but it is SECONDARY to the purpose of the group.

Let Rick ride!

Also, let the rules stay somewhat open. See what happens. If something actually and REALLY awkward starts happening---like everyone flying flags in unhelpful ways, then do something. Rick isn't asking to be an exception---altho he is special. He asking for permission to live (as Saroyan wrote). He's a person. People cut their flag poles to differing lengths. He's doing it his way. He wouldn't do it if it were dangerous. The safety is the thing, not the rule.

For now the safety or lack thereof of flags is theoretical. No one has been poked by a flag-pole and no one has been saved by a flag. Let's not let rules go to the heads of the organizers.

If an otherwise wonderful ride leader says they'll quit unless they're given "iron fist" power over their peers---then they SHOULD quit. Our leaders are helpers not bosses.

What's the future of the group, anyway? Especially among young people? Is it attractive and conducive to sociability if it has a fussbudget, bureaucratic style? These matters should be cases for judgement calls not rule manuals.

In truth, the ride leader DISLIKED Rick and singled him out for ATTACK.

Nobody is perfect. Every act has some good and bad in it. Whose approach is relatively more in keeping with sociable bike riding---someone who uses their power against someone they dislike? Or a safe friendly bike rider who does things a little differently in a scene where everyone likes to be a little different? I rest my case! : )

Good luck sorting it out! : )

This is the only reason I will not ride the DALMAC. Those flags are a throw back to days long gone. I was on a club ride last summer behind a guy with a flag on his bike. After following him about a mile and getting slapped in the face about 10 times, I decided right there that I would NEVER again attend any type of ride with those ridiculous flags.

I started Michigans Leukemia Society, Team In Training Cycling Team about 13 years ago. I coached their cycling teams for 9 years and participated in about 20 national century rides from the Sierra Nevada Mountains in California to Florida to Maine. Not one of these rides required those ridiculous flags!

I have been racing, and doing club rides in Michigan for 38 years! I am a USCF cycling official and ride leader.

Let Rick ride and get rid of those stupid flags!

Those flags are antiques and are not safe!

go get em Rick! Or even better, just ride without registering. Or ride with upside down anarchist flag!

those flags are very dangerous...and only those who want to participate in flying one should do so. Rick Oberle is a good, safe, and concientious rider...he should be left to ride! I mean, really, what is DALMAC gaining from this ride...besides bad publicity that is.

Ditch the flags- check with the insurance company to see if they really still want them...

Thanks for screwing it up for everyone Rick. We use to be able to trim the flags and shorten the base. Not now, thanks again.

Geepers..Let the guy ride!

A day-glow jersey makes sense, flag ... no.

If you require flags as a "safety precaution" then you take on the liability of crashes and injuries caused by: flag poles falling into spokes of a rotating wheel (use your imagination on this one), flag poles getting caught by extended side view mirrors on RVs or those mega 4 wheeler pickups (use your imagination on this one), the rider in front of you goes down and you impale yourself on the equivalent of an arrow shaft and so on and so forth. A good law suite will definately cost more than all funds raised for the entire history of DALMAC and then you still have to pay the blood sucking attorneys to defend yourself over a $5 piece of equipment that is banned at all modern day bicycle events. How about orange racing numbers that can be safety pinned to on the back of the jerseys? Getting impaled by a safety pin would be far more preferable to the alternative, you think, duh!

The flag is dangerous. It can cause injury to riders following behind you.

Well, I won't recommend Dalmac to anyone I know as a result of this aburdity. I've led literally hundreds of rides and the use of the flag might be beneficial on hilly terrain while riding solo it is an obvious hazard and the rule should be deleted or overhauled. As reported, you come across as a vindictive individual and not facilitating an enhancement of the bicycle community here in Michigan which many of us are trying to do. A false notion of "safety" remains just that. FALSE.

There are many safer, more visable alternatives to flags now available (Flashing LED lights, highly reflective arm bands/numbers, etc). It would be nice to see DALMAC embrace some of these new technologies.

He knows the rules as they exist. Come up with a better method such as Blinking red lights on your legs. A little safety goes a long way. I do not beleive in the flags as they interfere with getting on/off the bike and we used them at the Marathons @ Belle Isle.

Lots of safe lights on the market. Sell the one you want and give the proceeds to a good charity.

Power corrupts, the old saying goes, and your action barring Rick once again proves the truth of the saying.

Reading some of the other emails you've been sent, it's very clear that other people have eloquently made the point that requiring flags is a dangerous anachronism, one which ought to be ended forthwith, so I encourage you to do so at once. I suspect you have no idea how much disrespect and angst the flag rule produces among your riders.

Let me make another point. THe roads are open to the public. You have no power whatsoever to keep Rick from riding the same roads as Dalmac on the same days and at the same times. You would expose yourself and your club to serious legal liability were you to attempt to keep him from riding his bike. So all you could really do is deny him food, baggage and camping services. Doing so would once again simply show that power corrupts.

One other point: civil disobedience is a time-honored tradition in a democracy, and Rick's refusal to 'fly' a flag is a perfect example of civil disobedience. It harms no one, and you simply end up looking like the bike-tour equivalent of Stalin or Hitler by trying to force Rick to change his well-reasoned, rational behavior just because you disagree with it.

The flags don't bother me a bit. Let Rick argue somewhere else... I am dissapointed with Rick's attitude on this issue, as it is inconssistent with the support he has given cycling. I hope Rick changes his attitude on this petty issue and continues to support the sport.

I was considering riding the DALMAC for the first time this year but now knowing that I will have to append this foolish flag to my bike I think I'll pass.

I think Rick should be allowed to ride. I've ridden with Rick on DALMAC at least a half a dozen times. He is a great rider, rides in a very safe manner and always has the safety of others in mind as well. I agree, I think the flags are more of a hazard than anything particularly if you're riding near others ... which most riders are.

Consider this quote from H.L. Mencken:

The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All huan progress has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant. Hia culture is based on "I am not too sure."

ditch the flags and not rick. if you decide to keep the flags, be clearer about the rule and then enforce it. it sounds like some people follow the rule, but most people don't. why can they ride and not rick? get really strict about the flags this year, and i'm guessing you're numbers will go way down next year. out of curiosity, is there any evidence that the flags increase safety? publishing that data might make people more understanding. otherwise, it just looks like a silly, out-dated rule.

Yes, Rick should ride. In fact, he should be congratulated for making an issue about these flags - they should be banned immediately! They are unsafe and a hazard to the riders. If anything, a pulsing light should be used on the crown of the helmets to draw drivers' attention to the cyclists. The flags are old, old technology, they are ineffective, and worst of all, they are a puncture and contusion hazard.

As if that weren't enough, the act of banning Rick is extremely petty behavior. Don't let yourself or the Club get distracted by this non-issue - be the bigger man, reverse your decision, and let Rick ride - let's get these hazardous flags out of here for the 2008 DALMAC!

This is not the first nor the last time DALMAC and TCBA shows its ineptitude regarding bicycling. I know they think they are hot and their reputation is sterling, but they really are out of touch with the bicycling world (just into their own arrogance).

Since fladgs are not required by law, or any other ride I've been on, I think it's inappropriate to require this on the DALMAC.

I WOULD NOT GO ON any ride that has this requirment.

I believe that the flags cause an unnecessary danger on rides when in a pack.

Wewease Wick! -Monty Python

Rick the Resister - thanks for riding DALMAC all these years. Wish you were coming back this year with flag unfurled. Yep, you've managed to provoke a big brou-ha-ha over an question that has plagued the ride since '73. I made my peace with the flag years ago. I drag it out, dust it off, slide it into my BOBHARRINGTON tube bracket taped to my rear rack and join with the DALMAC riders for another year. Most people have reached some accomodation with the flag that stops short of pocketing it. You had to push it over the brink of reason by taking the question to the absurd. Hey, guy, it one 4/5-day ride once a year. It is your choice to fly or not to fly. You decide. Enjoy whatever ride you are going to do the Labor Day. I'd like to see you on DALMAC flying a flag. Veteran of '73 and many other DALMACs

Its a dangerous and obsolete rule. Counter to its intent.

I have been in pacelines with those silly flags they are what other contributors to these comments claim them to be.

In addition, I am surprised by the position of the organization to examine the issue with an objective veiw. This is very much unlike cyclists who (in the majority) are individualists with respect to differing points of view.

This isn't about safety its about "rules are rules" even if they don't make sense. Everyone needs to grow-up!

Safety is more important than a identification flag.

Responsible riders sign waivers. that should be enough. It's hard enough trying to concentrate on the wheel in front of you at 25mph+, let alone with a flag flapping and snapping in your face.

LET RICK RIDE!!!!!!!!!

Even the Shoreline rides will be flag free this year. LMB faced/discussed the same issues every year, with some pro and some con, about requiring bike flags. The only ones who may miss them are the SAG drivers.

I think the full-length-stick rule should be enforced, although it would take more volunteers to do it, and either raise the price of DALMAC, or reduce the level of SAG service, for everyone.

I've sagged on DALMAC and know that visibility is increased with a flag on a long pole, both from a distance, and in hilly areas, where the driver gets another half-second to know the road ahead is not clear. Personally, I use a flag ALL THE TIME, not just on tours.

I reject the idea that recumbent riders are better candidates for flags than those that ride other kinds of bikes because they are "so low". Drivers routinely approach each other at over 50mph, separated by a stripe of paint less than 1/16" high; somehow they are able to see THAT !

One responder said there is no proof that using a flag makes the ride safer. Imagine trying to gather together all the drivers who, only because they saw the flag, avoid killing or injuring a rider. It is just not a fair argument, even if only one life was saved anonymously.

Rick, and other riders, are complaining about how unsafe the flags seem to them. I suspect that many of those riders ride in pace lines. I would suggest that riding in pace lines is more dangerous than riding with flags, both in the frequency, and the severity, of accidents caused by them.

When you drive, you agree to follow the rules of the road. When you program computers, you must follow the rules of programming. When you join a voluntary ride, you need to follow the rules of the ride. Past experience shows that it will not be hard to fill the spot of someone who is denied registration.

I also think Rick make a mistake in encouraging anonymous responses; who is to say all the favorable ones were not fabricated by Rick or, to be fair to Rick, that the unfavorable ones were fabricated by Al. Because of that decision, any feedback that is sent to Al can carry no weight.

This entire issue has devolved. It should not be a line drawn in the sand. It should be a clear-headed conversation and discussion about safety between TCBA and DALMAC participants.

I was on a spring peddle and paddle ride and when they installed the flag I thought they would damage my frame.. ugh !!! anyhow for all the other reasons, the flag on a pole only works in front of schools and government buildings.....

The FLAG MUST Stay on DALAMC for one very important reason.

Too many drivers are using a cell phone while driving. A distraction that is gaining in popularity. Anything you can do to make the cyclist more visible to a driver who is talking on a cell phone while driving will help the cyclist.

PLease stick to your guns and keep those flags flying high!!

Note: By tying the upper portion of the flag pole to your seat or rear rack, the flat flies straight and high.

Riding behind the flapping flags is hugely annoying - especially if you have the misfortune of following a recumbent - their flag is right at your eye level. Optional flags would be terrific.

I am a long time member of the Wolverine Sports Club and am slightly embarrassed by this silliness. When in my house, you follow my rules, I have no problem with that principle applied elsewhere. I guess Rick and his friends are truly blessed that this is the biggest problem in their life such that they can spend this much energy on it.

think this is silly. The flag is to help other vehicles on the road see us. I am not a "wolverine" rider, but I can't believe the flag has that much of a drag. That is ridiculous. Safety should come before anything else. It is not an issue about how good of a rider you are it is due to safety. If us "non wolverine" riders can make it without being dragged down by the flag then I would think the "wolverine" riders would be able to also without complaining. Good job Al.

Please let him ride, I agree with him about the dangers of the flag on the stick!!!!

To bad you can't find it in yourself to even post all of the comments. Just reinforces what kind of guy you REALLY are and why I'm personally glad you won't be on a DALMAC anytime soon.

(They are ALL cut and pasted from the responses in their entirety- Even this illiterate's! Rick)

Hey, come on! Let Rick Ride! He's only concerned about everyone's safety. And that's a good thing!

have some flexibility please. Avid cyclists really enjoy this yearly experience.

I know nothing about biking, but after reading the pros and cons of this situation, Rick Oberle's position is the logical and sensible one. He is correct about the safety issues involved; Mr. Simons seems to be obsessing about this issue for more than just the reason of "following rules and regulations." If the Tour de France (and the majority of US rides)doesn't use flags, why is DALMAC taking such a stand about it, much less barring one of the most conscientious, dedicated and safety-conscious riders in Michigan? LET RICK RIDE!!

Come on, Al! Let Rick ride!

Are you kidding me? Get a clue!

It sounds to me like DALMAC is intended to be a tour, not a race (or pace-line ride). If you want a race or training ride, ride it as an ITT so you won't be distracted by the flag. 73 DALMAC Vet and (one upon a time) Masters CAT 2.

A banner flying from a tour van would be just as good...

Something is not right if DALMAC is the only ride to use the flag. If this is true and the flag is still in, then I am out. I will find a safer way to spend my Labor Day weekend and not jeopardize my safety or the safety of others.

Personally I think a flag rule is just stupid. I see no safety benefit and agree with the idea that it could be perilous. I feel requiring bright jerseys or something of the sort would bring just as much notice of the riders to drivers and what not that could pose a hazard. Having said that, if DALMAC wants to require flags on poles then that is their choice and if you choose to ride in DALMAC then you should abide. However, since I think that flags are stupid, then I would be stupid for doing the ride. Find some other ride or better yet organize a competing ride and let DALMAC die if that is your desire. Othrwise, abide by the rules as put forth.

I've ridden DALMAC and yes the flag/stick is a hazzard. Not even considering being impaled, the other issue is when you are mounting and dismounting the bike. If that flag isn't adjusted properly or you don't remember to hold in your leg in you can clip the stick w/your foot and it will throw off your balance.

I rode DALMAC from 78 thru 90. I used the flag, although I do not use flags otherwise. I do not consider the flag to be either a saftey benifit or a hazard. It is, however, a part of the DALMAC tradition. Let's not mess with it. Let's not argue about things that aren't important.

If the flags are such a great thing, why doesn't the TCBA require them on their other large rides, like WOW and T-Shirt? There are generally more bikes on the road at once with those rides than any one of the DALMAC routes except the last day. If you choose to ride with a flag that's great. If not, who really cares.

Anyone bother checking with the CPSC about whether or not the flag bracket affects the integrity of the clamping mechanism? I'll bet it does.......

Is there any other ride in the country that uses flags?

If you were to mount the flag bracket beneath a QR you would prevent the QR from biting into the frame when it's closed and that could keep your wheel from being properly tightened in the frame. Look closely at the inside face of the QR cap and you'll see it has teeth on it to bite into the frame and hold fast. Those can't work if you put a piece of smooth metal between them and the frame. Now, most bikes today have vertical dropouts which hold the wheel in place even if the QR isn't all that tight, but it's still not good to risk having the wheel come loose.

It's possible of course that there are new flag designs and brackets that I don't know about. (For example, if I was designing one, I'd make it mount to the dropout eyelet and the seatstay somehow so that it didn't impact the axle or QR at all.) Sorry for the ignorance - out here in CA, you just don't see flags anywhere (sometimes I see them on trailers but short ones and attached only to the trailer -- still a rare sight, though) so it's been a long time, probably at least 15 years since I've seen anyone riding with a flag on their bike (and keep in mind that we're right on a major trans-continental bike route that goes from Canada to Mexico). In fact I was hoping there would be some photos of the ride on your site just so I could experience a flashback to what it looked like in 1976 when every tourist (even me) wanted to ride with a flag. I think that would help people understand the issue better since I think bike flags are pretty unheard of in most places.

On the safety issue, apart from whether the flag will loosen the wheel, I think that if the flag is tall, above the rider's shoulders, for example, that it shouldn't be able to poke anyone too seriously, but this is based on

what I remember. It seems like a tall flag wouldn't bend down far enough to get in people's faces and would just bend out of the way if there was a crash and you flew into it, though I could be wrong.

But, short flags seem to me to be a very dangerous idea because any short pole or rod or stick could surely poke and puncture if you landed on it and just walked into it -- and definitely if you crashed and landed on it. That's seems like a no-brainer to me. It would be interesting perhaps to ask the ride officials what stats they have on accidents, what caused them and what injuries there were.

Another question that comes to mind is why do you need flags in the first place? When there are many bikers on the road, they're conspicuous enough already to motorists. What additional benefit do flags provide? Does the ride make money on every flag sold, or something? One more thought: getting on and off a bike with a tall flag is trickier, too, because you can't swing your leg behind the seat.

You know, I've always thought if they' were so h***-bent on safety, why not require everyone to ride with full body armor and fire-protective suits. Both of those make one somewhat safer, right? Who knows when you'll be blind-sided by burning meteor from outer space? You have to be prepared for that, right?

And, while we're on the topic of safety, has TCBA been sanitizing the snack stops and filtering the water? I've often wondered what sort of microbes are floating around in those water jugs used to fill everyone's water bottles. How many cases of botulism have been hatched from a DALMAC cookie tray, hmm?

Did you see the "forum" on the DALMAC site? There are a lot of comments there about the flag & pole issue.

What a mess! Sheesh!

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